1964 3.8s P1B 75089 DN

[911kuli]

Maybe someone on this site can assist me with additional information about my 3.8s.

I completed the Jaguar Heritage information and submitted. Amazingly, they responded to my request for a build sheet quickly. Here is the issue;

They will not confirm my cars numbers since it was assembled then disassembled and sent as a CKD (Complete Knock Down) to South Africa!

Does anyone on this site know the history of cars sent to South Africa as CKD? My assumption is Jaguar had a dealership in South Africa that ordered these cars CKD, imported to avoid duty as parts and then reassembled the cars for sale, but I'm speculating.

My car really looks like a US car, so this was really a bit of a shock. It is a LHD, US gauges, 4 speed and OD. Its very original and I don't think its been messed with too much, but I could be really wrong about that assumption.

Anyway to check to see where it might have been shipped to in South Africa?

Any information would be appreciated.

[cass3958]

Welcome to the forum. We have loads of information and Glyn will have more information about CKD cars but your according to the chassis number is not one of them Unless as you have stated it was prebuilt in Coventry, stripped to parts, shipped to South Africa and reassembled. This might have been before the CKD factories actually opened up in South Africa and your car was a special order to get around the tax problems. Surprising that they are sending a LHD Jaguar to a RHD country unless the owner knew they would one day export it on to the USA.

All UK built cars have the prefix P1B or 1B which means they are an S Type chassis. The P means the car is fitted with Power steering. CKD cars start with A. All CKD south African Jaguars were RHD 3.8 and I think Glyn said they were all fitted with Power steering. The DN means you have the Moss four speed gearbox with O/D. The earliest A CKD car we have on the registry is dated around December 1965 manufacture.

From the registry I can see your car is not listed so you should send all your details to David Reilly the holder of the registry. 75089 is a very early number as we only have three other cars with a lower number still known to us.

[Glyn Ruck]

Welcome.

Your car's details are strange ~ might have been a one off for export. The first CKD S type built in SA was A1B56963DN. My car was the 4th built here. No LHD cars were officially built in SA. They were built here to get around the local content program & resultant taxation of imports. All were 3.8's with PAS. No SA built S Types had the Moss gearbox. All SA Manual cars had the Jaguar sync4 gearbox & Compact Type A Laycock de Normanville OD. All engine block & head machining & assembly was done here. Blank blocks & heads & other components were sent to SA. Local content program was by weight at the time. DN suffixed cars were Overdrive & BW cars Automatic. Local build was supposed to start January 1966 but my car got registered late December 1965. Something I've never been able to resolve. Approx 990 S types were built in SA

The A prefix cars were built at CDA, East London (Today on that site is the Mercedes Benz plant). B prefix cars were built at Blackheath, Cape Town.

You can read about it all here. This is in the majority correct.

SA built cars had both a Jaguar number & in the case of CDA a CDA number. P1B75089DN was not in the SA built car numbering sequence.

http://www.jagstyperegister.com/ckd.htm

Feel free to ask questions after reading.

[cass3958]

Following on from what Glyn has said it would be interesting to see the heritage certificate concerning your car. If you could attach a copy we would be very interested in seeing it.
As I thought before your car predates the CKD factories opening up in South Africa so my assumption would be that it was a special order to get around the taxes that Glyn has mentioned, where your car was manufactured ready for export in the UK being LHD and was then stripped in to large parts, taken across to South Africa and reassembled which is very unusual. Still do not understand why a LHD Jaguar would be exported to a country that uses RHD cars though.

[Glyn Ruck]

Absolutely & SA cars were CKD (completely knocked down) and not SKD (semi knocked down). You can't take apart a CKD car once it's body is welded up from base panels, brazed & lead wiped. SA assembled a CKD body as Pressed Steel did for Jaguar in the UK. Browns Lane got the bodies complete. We built Mk2's here starting 1960 prior to the S Type & 420's later. We also built the XJ6 Series 1 & 2 here,

Body inspection at Browns Lane from Pressed Steel

Pressed Steel.JPG (37.86 KiB) Viewed 2294 times

Defect rectification

Pressed Steel1.JPG (57.48 KiB) Viewed 2294 times

Paint.

Pressed Steel 2.JPG (94.06 KiB) Viewed 2294 times

[911kuli]

Thanks for all the feed back. I had read over the articles regarding CKD cars yesterday and my car certainly didn't fit those description. So went back and checked numbers and went over the car again, multiple times. I asked Jaguar to send me a copy of my application, since - maybe - I gave them a wrong number. Tracy came back with this email this AM;

Tracy Nabbs

4:09 AM (3 hours ago)

to me
Good Morning,

Thank you for your email.

Following your comments, we have again checked the manufacturers build ledger and can confirm that you are correct, when this was first researched the incorrect line was picked up in the ledger. We will process your order and email you a copy as soon as we have completed the research.

We are sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused. Kind regards

Tracy Nabbs
Admin Assistant
Jaguar Daimler Heritage Trust

With that being said, I'll await the certificate. The information on the CKD cars was very interesting. I appreciate everyone's responses.

My car has several things that don't match some of the pictures of similar cars on the web. These things could have been changed by previous owners. I think the factory color was gold. My motors is not set up for power steering and does not appear to have had power steering. The interior headliner material looks to be mohair vs. wool broadcloth typically used.

75089 - is registered with this site. This all started because I was collecting parts from a parts car. Decided to get the Certificate, while I'm at it on 75089. Mainly wanted the wire wheel conversion parts from the parts car for substitution my disc wheels. Then started stripping other bits as I went along. The 3.8s going to the crusher is Car #P1B 54159BW. It is a rusty POS that I paid $500 for - just to pick up the wire wheel hubs and rear end parts, it had no motor or transmission and was very rusty. Really poor quality work done on it in the past. Plus it was hit hard in the front end and repaired poorly. However, taking one apart teaches you a lot about how these cars were put together and I needed that knowledge before I engage restoration on 75089.

Once again, I appreciate everyone's responses. Next up, I'll be checking rear end differential ratios regarding automatic cars and gear box cars.

[911kuli]

Thanks for all the feed back. I had read over the articles regarding CKD cars yesterday and my car certainly didn't fit those description. So went back and checked numbers and went over the car again, multiple times. I asked Jaguar to send me a copy of my application, since - maybe - I gave them a wrong number. Tracy came back with this email this AM;

Tracy Nabbs

4:09 AM (3 hours ago)

to me
Good Morning,

Thank you for your email.

Following your comments, we have again checked the manufacturers build ledger and can confirm that you are correct, when this was first researched the incorrect line was picked up in the ledger. We will process your order and email you a copy as soon as we have completed the research.

We are sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused. Kind regards

Tracy Nabbs
Admin Assistant
Jaguar Daimler Heritage Trust

With that being said, I'll await the certificate. The information on the CKD cars was very interesting. I appreciate everyone's responses.

My car has several things that don't match some of the pictures of similar cars on the web. These things could have been changed by previous owners. I think the factory color was gold. My motors is not set up for power steering and does not appear to have had power steering. The interior headliner material looks to be mohair vs. wool broadcloth typically used.

75089 - is registered with this site. This all started because I was collecting parts from a parts car. Decided to get the Certificate, while I'm at it on 75089. Mainly wanted the wire wheel conversion parts from the parts car for substitution my disc wheels. Then started stripping other bits as I went along. The 3.8s going to the crusher is Car #P1B 54159BW. It is a rusty POS that I paid $500 for - just to pick up the wire wheel hubs and rear end parts, it had no motor or transmission and was very rusty. Really poor quality work done on it in the past. Plus it was hit hard in the front end and repaired poorly. However, taking one apart teaches you a lot about how these cars were put together and I needed that knowledge before I engage restoration on 75089.

Once again, I appreciate everyone's responses. Next up, I'll be checking rear end differential ratios regarding automatic cars and gear box cars.

[Glyn Ruck]

It comes as no surprise that an error was made. Nothing gelled.

SA built cars had vinyl headlining with an attractive brush stroke finish. UK built cars had Union Cloth lambswool headlining.

Trust you will get the correct data soon. Out of interest does your car have fog lights fitted or typical US car dummy horn grills fitted

I restored my car to British standard as none of those original materials are available.

untitled4.png (4.55 MiB) Viewed 2274 times

020x(17).JPG (227.3 KiB) Viewed 2266 times

020x(16).JPG (228.85 KiB) Viewed 2266 times

[911kuli]

Mine has the dummy horns. The parts car had the driving lights still intact, so these will be installed on my car during restoration.

[Glyn Ruck]

Then it's typical of a car built for the US market. Also white flasher lights front & all red tail lamps.