3.4S (manual) Starter Motor

[dsbiggles]

"The solenoid goes at the top with the cables away from the block."

See the photo above. The nut in the photo is facing away from the block and this is where the cable attaches, but it also has the motor on the top and solenoid bit on the bottom.

?

[cass3958]

Below is a photo of my HP starter in position which I took last year when I had the carbs off.

There is also a photo of the old and the new. There is the old original stater then two modern starters one for the Auto and one for the manual. The old starter should be turned with the open side of the hood to the flywheel but the two modern starters are as they sit on the side of the engine with the solenoid sat on the top.

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[dsbiggles]

Many thanks.

My original starter was an intertia type but same general shape.

On the new one I'd assumed the 'motor' was the drum-shaped bit and the solenoid was in line with the starter cog, so it can pull it in and out. Either way, the way you have yours is what I'd assumed, so it's simply a case of finding out how to get it secured to the car. As you say, a nut and bolt would work as long as I can hold the bolt head in the same way I undid the nut.

A suggestion to the manufacturer might be to make them with a thread in the holes, but no matter.

Will advise if I can get it sorted.

[Glyn Ruck]

Jaguar did this to get around the turning bolts issue. All later cars. Does this not work Rob? (re your previous post)

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[cass3958]

No unfortunately the welded ring does not fit with the new HP starter motor as the ring, no matter which way you try it interferes with the body of the new motor.

As for the solenoid/starter motor, not sure which is which but it sits as per the photo with the sticky out bit that is not inline with the geared toothy cog bit at the top. Technical terms were never my fortia.

[Glyn Ruck]

Yes ~ I can see that the gear drive to multiply torque takes up space. I wonder if the later slim variety would fit?

[dsbiggles]

I've got the thin band like the newer one in the pic. I will see if I can get it to fit.

Interestingly, the starter motor manufacturer replied to my query about this and said that it is possible to remove the front plate with the two 'ears', re-drill it and screw it back on without affecting warranty. They also said you can mount the motor 'upside down' and they provide an adaptor that will re-position the connector to the back of the unit (as per the original) to assist with installation.

see:

https://www.powerlite-units.com/starters/rac900.html

[dsbiggles]

Final chapter for anyone contemplating this entertaining aspect of maintenance.

Although it is possible to get the starter motor in from the top/front of the car, it probably makes sense (on a manual) to remove the oil filter. This will give you enough access from underneath to move the motor in and out fairly quickly.

The curved band will attach OK to the car (it's meant to attach to the motor on the original Lucas setup) and the two bolts protruding will help to locate the starter motor.

I tried mounting the starter 'upside down' and, although it will work OK that way up, the motor part fouls the block, so you would need to remove the endplate and (accurately) drill two new holes. I didn't fancy that, so went for right way up, but this causes a problem when it comes to nuts and bolts.

The bottom nut is easy enough to fit.

The top nut is completely obscured by the body of the motor. The options seem to be:
1) Dispense with the band (if you have one) and use nuts and bolts. The drawback with this method is that it makes the motor hard to locate if you are working alone and the top nut and bolt are still incredibly hard to tighten.
2) Use the band and buy a £20 Draper endoscope. The software that you need to get it working is truly dire and it wouldn't work with my Samsung phone. However, I got it to work with an old(er) Sony phone (after watching a video review on YT) and it was brilliant. You need to hold the camera end in place with something rigid - the flexible cable it comes with is not stiff enough. I used a long (18") extension bar and rested this along the edge of the block and the back of the starter motor. That holds the camera steady. Then, with the nut held in a socket on the end of a couple of long 3/8 extension bars (about 12-14" is enough) you can mate the nut to the bolt end and tighten it up with ease.
In theory, it should be possible to do this without a camera, by trial and error, but I found when I started using it, and could see what I was doing, that the natural tendency is to point the nut away from the bolt and the correct position (once you can see it on the camera) feels completely wrong.

I got it all reassembled and it starts incredibly fast. No more of the churning/brief cough/flooding/disconnect auto choke routine. And, I can't recommend the manufacturer highly enough: https://www.powerlite-units.com/ - brilliant service.

[cass3958]

Glad you eventually got it in. The difference between the old and new is incredible and I have had not problems starting the car since I changed mine over.
I had the thicker welded nut band which is possibly why mine would not fit and I had to resort to nuts and bolts. I said previously it is possibly one of the hardest jobs to do on the S Type solely because of the lack of access to the nuts and the limited space you have to maneuver the old heavy starter motor around. Taking the oil filter off I found was a lot easier than trying to guide it out of the top of the engine and the new light weight motor was a breeze to get into position after I had removed the oil pressure sender off the top of the oil filter housing.

[John Quilter]

There must be two different types of Lucas starters used on S Types. Looking at the image above it shows one with a narrowed neck next to the mounting flange. Mine, on a MOD car is shorter in overall length and dies not have the narrow neck. Are they different for automatics and manuals?. Maybe the shorted one would be easier to extract and replace?