by JCS » Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:37 pm
Jim,
“Will a rear sway bar for a series I or II XKE fit a 64 S type ?”
Sorry for the late reply, long term illness and other issues intervened.
I purchased my rear anti- roll bar from HBE Harvey Bailey Engineering in UK, usual disclaimers. Unfortunately, I have not been able to fit it at the present time and quite a few issues need sorting before that time arrives, including Corvid.
My understanding of the Jaguar rear anti-roll bars is that there are three variations to suit track widths approximately 50 inch, 54 inch and 58 inch, for E Type, S type and Mk X chassis types respectively. Therefore I cannot envisage an E Type bar fitting an S Type.
I visited HBE to look first hand at their operation…… for a very small company, I would say very impressive and very knowledgeable. I judge that against most of the smaller automotive operations which I have visited around the world. They have no connection now with the former Rolls-Royce Chief Engineer who formed the company and carried the name.
They are quite leaders in suspension technology and work for most F1 racing teams. Their equipment is the most up to date kit for testing suspension parts, particularly shock absorbers, that I have seen.
On my visit to HBE I learnt a few things about their bars. They advised me, in answer to my many questions, that they cold formed their anti-roll bars, and although they did not say, I would think they might de-stress them after forming.
Our discussions also brought forward another important point. They have come across two different widths between the rear frame section centres, to which the anti-roll bar is mounted, on the Jaguar S Type. In essence that means at least two different side to side distances between the threaded mounting holes. Possibly this was a result of Pressed Steel altering dies to aid body production. Nevertheless, it can, and does raise the need for the user to check the centre lines of the chassis threaded holes before ordering.
I would recommend anyone considering fitting a rear anti-roll bar to check out a few point beforehand, as follows…………
Although I did not fit my rear bar, I did offer it loosely into position. The right-hand side has a few obstructions to consider. The fuel line, brake line and rear brake hose could foul the ends and vertical link on the bar. If these parts have been replaced or re-routed it is even more important to check clearances. Similar fouling problems could just about occur if pattern exhaust silencers and tail pipes are fitted causing possible reworking of another component.
Many of these cars have the rear suspension lower or higher than standard and to adhere to clearances the bar need checking for a foul condition throughout the full suspension travel and full bump condition.
The chassis mounting points take the form of captured threads in the chassis box section, probably even a threaded plate. I do not know if all the S Types were fitted with these threaded mountings from commencement of production. It is worth checking if they are present and just as important rust free.
The anti-roll bar is “U” shaped in the centre to pass around the drive shaft rear coupling, I can see that this might be a hindrance if the axle pinion oil seal needed renewing. I would therefore suggest that the oil seal is replaced if there is any doubt about its integrity before fitting an anti-roll bar.
From memory only, I recollect that the actual head of the special bolt part no. C17149/1 that secures the rear wishbones to rear radius arms, can clash with the anti-roll bar drop link securing nut. In essence these two parts almost “butt heads together” in such a way that only one can be manoeuvred into position and the bolt head is nearly fully recessed…….at least that is my perspective of the arrangement.
In fact, anyone replacing the rear radius arms or bushes may perceive this situation when trying to tighten the self-locking nut on the C17149/1 special bolt. Fortunately, when I had my subframe parts dismantled I found the Jaguar bolt / nut could not be held against rotation. Furthermore, the bolt could be impossible to hold if removal was required with the sub frame in situ.
I overcame that situation by using a top grade 0.5 inch? cap head bolt with some machining to reduce the depth of the internal hexagon. This meant I could hold the bolt head with an allen key and use a wrench on the nut. I mention this arrangement as it would also allow the anti-roll bar link to be attached more easily to the radius arm.
On my car, the right-side chassis section has been repaired at some point in its life, a very good repair it is, but unfortunately the repairer did not reinstate the threaded points for an anti-roll bar mounting. I am very guarded about trying to reinstate any form of mounting in that location, as without very major surgery it will be impossible to reinforce the area sufficient to handle the forces involved.
As I have replaced all the main components on the rear end of my car, including using an E Type 3.3:1 axle ratio, the ride which I value highly is superb and the body roll I can accept for the way I use the car. I initially contemplated fitting the rear anti roll bar out of curiosity rather than necessity, so aborting the fitting is of no great consequent. At the moment outside influences are pointing towards someone in the UK buying a cheap anti roll bar from me, however I hope these notes may help someone who may be contemplating the job.
Jim,
“Will a rear sway bar for a series I or II XKE fit a 64 S type ?”
Sorry for the late reply, long term illness and other issues intervened.
I purchased my rear anti- roll bar from HBE Harvey Bailey Engineering in UK, usual disclaimers. Unfortunately, I have not been able to fit it at the present time and quite a few issues need sorting before that time arrives, including Corvid.
My understanding of the Jaguar rear anti-roll bars is that there are three variations to suit track widths approximately 50 inch, 54 inch and 58 inch, for E Type, S type and Mk X chassis types respectively. Therefore I cannot envisage an E Type bar fitting an S Type.
I visited HBE to look first hand at their operation…… for a very small company, I would say very impressive and very knowledgeable. I judge that against most of the smaller automotive operations which I have visited around the world. They have no connection now with the former Rolls-Royce Chief Engineer who formed the company and carried the name.
They are quite leaders in suspension technology and work for most F1 racing teams. Their equipment is the most up to date kit for testing suspension parts, particularly shock absorbers, that I have seen.
On my visit to HBE I learnt a few things about their bars. They advised me, in answer to my many questions, that they cold formed their anti-roll bars, and although they did not say, I would think they might de-stress them after forming.
Our discussions also brought forward another important point. They have come across two different widths between the rear frame section centres, to which the anti-roll bar is mounted, on the Jaguar S Type. In essence that means at least two different side to side distances between the threaded mounting holes. Possibly this was a result of Pressed Steel altering dies to aid body production. Nevertheless, it can, and does raise the need for the user to check the centre lines of the chassis threaded holes before ordering.
I would recommend anyone considering fitting a rear anti-roll bar to check out a few point beforehand, as follows…………
Although I did not fit my rear bar, I did offer it loosely into position. The right-hand side has a few obstructions to consider. The fuel line, brake line and rear brake hose could foul the ends and vertical link on the bar. If these parts have been replaced or re-routed it is even more important to check clearances. Similar fouling problems could just about occur if pattern exhaust silencers and tail pipes are fitted causing possible reworking of another component.
Many of these cars have the rear suspension lower or higher than standard and to adhere to clearances the bar need checking for a foul condition throughout the full suspension travel and full bump condition.
The chassis mounting points take the form of captured threads in the chassis box section, probably even a threaded plate. I do not know if all the S Types were fitted with these threaded mountings from commencement of production. It is worth checking if they are present and just as important rust free.
The anti-roll bar is “U” shaped in the centre to pass around the drive shaft rear coupling, I can see that this might be a hindrance if the axle pinion oil seal needed renewing. I would therefore suggest that the oil seal is replaced if there is any doubt about its integrity before fitting an anti-roll bar.
From memory only, I recollect that the actual head of the special bolt part no. C17149/1 that secures the rear wishbones to rear radius arms, can clash with the anti-roll bar drop link securing nut. In essence these two parts almost “butt heads together” in such a way that only one can be manoeuvred into position and the bolt head is nearly fully recessed…….at least that is my perspective of the arrangement.
In fact, anyone replacing the rear radius arms or bushes may perceive this situation when trying to tighten the self-locking nut on the C17149/1 special bolt. Fortunately, when I had my subframe parts dismantled I found the Jaguar bolt / nut could not be held against rotation. Furthermore, the bolt could be impossible to hold if removal was required with the sub frame in situ.
I overcame that situation by using a top grade 0.5 inch? cap head bolt with some machining to reduce the depth of the internal hexagon. This meant I could hold the bolt head with an allen key and use a wrench on the nut. I mention this arrangement as it would also allow the anti-roll bar link to be attached more easily to the radius arm.
On my car, the right-side chassis section has been repaired at some point in its life, a very good repair it is, but unfortunately the repairer did not reinstate the threaded points for an anti-roll bar mounting. I am very guarded about trying to reinstate any form of mounting in that location, as without very major surgery it will be impossible to reinforce the area sufficient to handle the forces involved.
As I have replaced all the main components on the rear end of my car, including using an E Type 3.3:1 axle ratio, the ride which I value highly is superb and the body roll I can accept for the way I use the car. I initially contemplated fitting the rear anti roll bar out of curiosity rather than necessity, so aborting the fitting is of no great consequent. At the moment outside influences are pointing towards someone in the UK buying a cheap anti roll bar from me, however I hope these notes may help someone who may be contemplating the job.